BAILII is celebrating 24 years of free online access to the law! Would you consider making a contribution?
No donation is too small. If every visitor before 31 December gives just Β£1, it will have a significant impact on BAILII's ability to continue providing free access to the law.
Thank you very much for your support!
[Home] [Databases] [World Law] [Multidatabase Search] [Help] [Feedback] | ||
England and Wales High Court (Chancery Division) Decisions |
||
You are here: BAILII >> Databases >> England and Wales High Court (Chancery Division) Decisions >> Riemann & Co & Ors v Linco Care Ltd [2007] EWHC 3466 (Ch) (14 June 2007) URL: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2007/3466.html Cite as: [2007] EWHC 3466 (Ch) |
[New search] [Printable RTF version] [Help]
CHANCERY DIVISION
B e f o r e :
____________________
RIEMANN & CO. & Ors. | Applicants/Claimants | |
- and - | ||
LINCO CARE LTD. | Defendant |
____________________
Official Shorthand Writers and Tape Transcribers
Quality House, Quality Court, Chancery Lane, London WC2A 1HP
Tel: 020 7831 5627 Fax: 020 7831 7737
Mr. R. Hacon (instructed by Barlow Robbins, Woking) appeared on behalf of the Defendant.
____________________
Crown Copyright ©
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS:
THE CLAIMANTS' CASE
"(1) A Community trade mark shall confer on the proprietor exclusive rights therein. The proprietor shall be entitled to prevent all third parties not having his consent from using in the course of trade:
" .
"(b) any sign where, because of its identity with or similarity to the Community trade mark and identity or similarity of the goods or services covered by the Community trade mark and the sign, there exists a likelihood of confusion on the part of the public; the likelihood of confusion includes the likelihood of association between the sign and the trade mark;
"(c) any sign which is which is identical with or similar to the Community trade mark in relation to goods or services which are not similar to those for which the Community trade mark is registered, where the latter has a reputation in the Community and where use of that sign without due cause takes unfair advantage of, or is detrimental to, the distinctive character or the repute of the Community trade mark."
"142. The First Board of Appeal of OHIM described unfair advantage in Case R 308/2003-1 Mango Sport System Srl Socio Unico Mangone Antonio Vincenzo v. Diknak [2005] ETMR 5 at[19]:
'As to unfair advantage, which is in issue here since that was the condition for the rejection of the mark applied for, that is taken when another undertaking exploits the distinctive character or repute of the earlier mark to the benefit of its own marketing efforts. In that situation that undertaking effectively uses the renowned mark as a vehicle for generating consumer interest in its own products. The advantage for the third party arises in substantial saving on investment in promotion and publicity for its own goods, since it is able to 'free ride' on that already undertaken by the earlier reputed mark. It is unfair since the reward for the costs of promoting, maintaining and enhancing a particular trade mark should belong to the owner of the earlier trade mark in question.'
"143. The notion of taking unfair advantage in this sense is that the third party is unfairly using the registered mark to enhance his own business. Thus in the Mango case itself the Board considered that the registration of the trade mark 'Mango' for crash helmets might take unfair advantage of the registered mark 'Mango' in relation to ladies clothing aimed at fashionable young women. The mischief clearly was that the manufacturer of crash helmets would increase his sales by feeding on the reputation acquired by the manufacturer of clothing. In other words, the one mark supports (or would support) the other.
"144. There is one other point I should make. The mere fact that one product has a free ride on another does not necessarily found liability. A supermarket cola may sell because of the taste for cola engendered by the promotion of Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola. Likewise, a supermarket packet of cornflakes may sell because of the promotion of cornflakes by Kellogg. But if the respective marks and signs do not have the necessary degree of similarity, that kind of free riding is legally permissible. Thus it is the similarity between sign and mark, not similarity between products, which is the key."
Mr. Hicks' submission that the effect of the defendant's continued sales of its product on the assumption that they are later proved unlawful at trial, the effect, that is, of those sales on the claimants' sales and therefore the claimants' profit on the sales, would be hard to assess at trial for the purposes of an award of compensation. I also accept that there is at least a risk that the unrestrained continuation of sales of C20 by the defendant pending trial could establish a platform of goodwill capable of being used in a manner that could not be subsequently restrained in 2008 thereafter. It is at present, as it seems to me, an unquantifiable risk, but a risk nonetheless.
I find that there is a triable issue about this, that its 2007 sales have already reached or past their peak. The consequence of that submission is that the defendant has not put loss of profit on its sales in the forefront of its case for the risk of suffering irremediable loss if wrongly restrained now. Further more, it is a fair comment, as it seems to me, that a loss of specific sales caused by the grant of an injunction is not inherently as hard to quantify as a loss caused by competition to sales of a competitor where the competitor is affected by numerous extraneous factors.
I can and do come at this interim stage are as follows: first, the loss of profit on sales of the defendant's product is an obvious risk associated with an injunction but neither a large one, at least on the defendant's case, that its marketing has at any rate reached or past its peak this season, nor, as difficult to quantify as the claimants' potential loss of sales if the competition is allowed to continue unrestrained. In that context, the evidence shows that the defendant has been, at the same time as selling C20 to most of its retailers, selling a very similarly packaged product of identical material in a package which does not bear the name C20 through a particular retailer called Matalan at a significantly discounted price. In my judgment, that parallel selling which is not sought to be restrained by the claimant, may well offer a useful benchmark for the quantification of any loss of sales or loss of profit occasioned by an interim injunction.
I would label "fairness". The factor may be illustrated by the following comparison: assume that no interim relief were to be granted. If the claimant succeeds at trial it will have suffered a whole season of unlawful and/or unfair competition. Of course, it is too late now to obtain an injunctive remedy to prevent that in relation to the first half of the 2007 season. Whereas, and, again, if no injunction is granted but the defendant succeeds at trial, it would, of course, have suffered no adverse effect at all, at least as a result of anything done by the court.
MR. HACON: My Lord, just on that point, how it should be phrased ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Yes, we have not looked I think in any detail at the minute of order.
MR. HACON: We have not. Could we do it now because I think it is fair to say that my learned friend's application was purely on C20, so I think the starting point would be the injunction relating to the use of C20 as opposed to anything else.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I think that is how Mr. Hicks put his application.
MR. HACON: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Would it not be better for Mr. Hicks to tell me what he wants and for you to tell me why he should not have it?
MR. HACON: Yes.
MR. HICKS: Shall I take you to the order which appears at Tab 2.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: File 1?
MR. HICKS: File 1. The injunctions at 2.1 and 2.2 ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Well, the leaflets issue has gone.
MR. HICKS: The leaflets issue has gone, so that can ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: On the assumption that is has sort of gone and not gone because that in a sense is already built into the regime up until today.
MR. HICKS: Yes, I am assuming ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: The infringing leaflets, I am not sure it has gone, because the infringing leaflets are the original leaflets.
MR. HICKS: That is right, the infringing leaflets is defined in 10.1 as any words, any leaflet, which has wording the same or substantially the same as that exhibited leaflet.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: It may be sufficient to put in a proviso that the current leaflet is not thereby prohibitive.
MR. HICKS: Yes, I think we could agree something ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I am just noting where things are going to have to change, proviso to preserve current leaflet save for the use of C20 on it.
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Other than C20. Yes.
MR. HICKS: Then 9 contains the definition of prohibited goods and it is fair to say that 9.1., 9.2. and 9.3 are with reference to the original C20 packaging because they are exhibits.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I think this is where Mr. Hacon's point comes into force, is it not? It seems to me that what you have argued for is not a wholesale changing of the box which might, for example, render unlawful the Matalan box, but something which uses C20 on it.
MR. HICKS: Yes, in fact that is right. All I need is 9.4.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Yes. So put a cross against 9.1, 9.2. and 9.3 and put in 9.4.
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: The provisio about infringing leaflets can come in at 10.3 presumably.
MR. HICKS: Yes
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Leaflet proviso.
MR. HICKS: I am sure that my learned friend and I can agree some form of suitable wording for that.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: What about the disclosure requirement in 3, is that contentious? There has been no argument one way or the other about it.
MR. HICKS: I think we know already because we have been provided with a list.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: You have been given a list.
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: So you do not need 3.
MR. HICKS: I do not need 3, no.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Is it a verified list?
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. HACON: It is attached to the exhibits.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: So it is a verified list then. That is fine, in which case we can cross out the whole of 3.
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: 4 is obviously sensible.
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Parties we have not yet reached.
MR. HICKS: No.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Shall I hear Mr. Hacon to see if thus amended he has continuing concerns?
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. HACON: Thus amended, my Lord, I have no objections. I would ask for this, that there be a two week stay. Your Lordship will have heard that it takes two weeks to change the packaging. So there is time at least to minimise the disruption with Linco's retailers and Linco will not have to suddenly cancel an order which retailers are expecting and hoping for. Obviously that will cause significant bad relations between the retailers and Linco, so a two weeks stay to allow that change to happen.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Anything else? I will then hear Mr. Hicks again.
MR. HACON: Nothing else thus far, no.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Mr. Hicks?
MR. HICKS: We are pretty unhappy with that because of the evidence that there is an order for 10,000 going out.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: It seems to me that if an order has been contracted for, in other words a binding contract to supply has been entered into, the court ought not to interfere with that contract.
MR. HICKS: One does not know whether it would be ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Well, I do not know, but it may be that an order phrased in those terms that preserved the liberty not to make fresh supplies for which there is not today a contractual obligation, but to make supplies which are already contracted. Leaving it over to trial, if there is a dispute about whether a supply was contracted is a perfectly understandable concept.
MR. HICKS: Yes. I suppose there are two issues. Is there an obligation to supply that quantity and, if so, by when?
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Well, that is vital to the terms of the contract. If they have got a contractual obligation to deliver because, let us say, there is a master agreement with a retailer which provides that a contract comes into existence when the retailer sends in an order form, then they ought to deliver it, it seems to me. It also seems to me that the taint point would be of particular force from the defendant's point of view, if it has to break an existing contract, rather than simply give them a blanket two weeks to offload as much further as they can into the market place between now and the end of the season, which is what you will say they will try and do.
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I make no comment either way whether they would, but it would simply provide an opportunity.
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Well, Mr. Hacon, what do you say about that?
MR. HACON: I have taken instructions. I am content with that.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I am sure the two of you can derive a formula. What
I have in mind is that there should be an injunction to restrain any further supplies save for such supplies which as at now, that is a.m. today, let us say lunch time today to give you time to ring up the office, as at 1 o'clock today have been contracted for well, as at the date of notification of this order to your client. Is there any client represented present?
MR. HACON: Yes, Mr. Richardson is here, yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: He is here. Well, then, as at now have been contracted for.
MR. HACON: I suppose it is theoretically possible that a director ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Let us say 12 o'clock. Surely a message can be got out the moment we finish with these matters? Let us say as at 12 o'clock.
Now, is that it on the order?
MR. HACON: Save as to costs.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Yes, of course, I am leaving costs aside for the moment.
MR. HICKS: The issue of costs then, I suppose as an issue of principle should you make I am obviously going to ask for my costs in some form or another.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Yes.
MR. HICKS: The question is where one has decided a case on balance of convenience what the fair thing to do is.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Yes.
MR. HICKS: My submission is that being the issue which this application has been concerned with, I have been successful on that, so in principle I should have my costs. It is simply that. The question is whether I should have them now, assessed now, or whether it should just be my costs ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Are they capable of being summarily assessed?
MR. HICKS: We have each put in costs schedules.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: So they are ----
MR. HICKS: They are.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: ---- in principle capable of being summarily assessed, or whether you should have an interim payment.
MR. HICKS: Yes, interim payment on account ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Yes, very well. What do you say, Mr. Hacon?
MR. HACON: My Lord, that would certainly be a departure from the usual rule. The usual rule is that a successful party on an interim injunction gets its costs in the case.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Is that still the usual rule? My recollection is that there has been quite a move in the last few years to treating heavy interim applications as ones on which costs follow the event of that application.
MR. HACON: My Lord, the old logic still applies. If it turns out the losing party was justified at trial, then the whole underlying reason for the interim application caused ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Well, that was the original logic.
MR. HACON: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: And the change, as I understand it, has occurred because of the ever increasing cost of litigation and the need to focus people on their prospects of success on a particular application.
MR. HACON: Indeed, my Lord, but, nonetheless ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: You say as a general rule, I mean, is there any recent authority? My recollection, but I cannot put names to it, is that the tendency has been to move towards making costs follow the event orders on heavy interim applications. The decision is quite different, of course, if it goes off by consent or on the first hearing before the judge, or something of that kind, where costs in the case order may be appropriate.
MR. HACON: My Lord, in my submission it is rather the other way round, in this sense, there has been no authority which has said, well, the old practice has changed.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I am bound to say that my recollection is that it had started to change even before the CPR came into force.
MR. HACON: There were always exceptions; there were exceptions to the option.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Not by way of exception, but by way of treating interim applications as essentially turning on their merits.
MR. HACON: There are certainly authorities for the proposition that where the interim application is entirely a self contained application, for example, it does not really have any connection with the merits of trial, the court took the view that that was self-contained, was usually the expression used, and therefore because there was not that relationship to the issues at the trial, the costs should go one way or the other according to who won. But on this kind of application where both sides are necessarily arguing on different
assumptions ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Of course.
MR. HACON: ---- considerations are different. My Lord, I do not think that underlying logic has changed. I certainly know of no authority which has said so, save for these other kinds of applications which your Lordship may have in mind. If my learned friend can point to an authority which has changed that logic, of course I would accept it, but I am certainly not aware of one.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: My difficulty is that I am aware of it, but I cannot put names to them. I do not know, and I am certainly not aware of one in the particular context of a trade off application.
MR. HACON: It is very context dependant; costs always are, are they not?
MR. HICKS: My Lord, I cannot produce an authority off the top of my head, but certainly my understanding is that it is always at the discretion of the court, but the court tendency was to try to deal with the costs.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: If you have Volume 2 of the White Book, you will find the Chancery Guide. For some reason my 2007 Volume 2 is not here, but I am getting my copy. (After a pause): The Commercial Court guide comes to our rescue.
MR. HICKS: I think we are stuck on this then.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: You are stuck.
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. HACON: All the notices, I am sure your Lordship has read it in the Chancery Guide, I am looking at p.41 of Volume 2, 11.3:
"The court will generally make a summary assessment of costs whenever the hearing lasts for less than one day. The Judge or Master who heard the application or other hearing (which will include a trial ) carries out the summary assessment. The court may decide not to assess costs summarily ."
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Yes, that does not really help. That is just on summary assessment, is it not?
MR. HACON: Quite. It just indicates that it would not arise where the court takes a view that it is costs in the case, or it is claimants' costs in the case.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Perhaps I should ask this, since I am going to be making directions anyway: is it anticipated that the witness statements used on this application will stand for the trial or are you going to start all over again?
MR. HICKS: I think we might use some of the exhibits, but I think probably both sides will start over again because they have come in in a fairly strange sequence.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Yes.
MR. HACON: What I am told, and it does not surprise me, is that there will be a new document but it will be off the word processor, so it will substantially be the same thing.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Is there anything else you want to add?
MR. HACON: My Lord, I do not think I can help you further on that.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: No.
MR. HACON: Save I should perhaps say this, if your Lordship were minded to make an assessment of costs now, the claimants' costs ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Well, not all of the costs, assessment has not yet been reached.
MR. HACON: That is right. I would urge on your Lordship that that should be left until trial for two reasons, one ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Assessment.
MR. HACON: Yes, the assessment should be left until trial for two reasons, one, because it is inevitably less expensive if you have one assessment and, two, the old logic - if it does not take one as far as saying it is claimants' costs in cause - still applies and therefore because the whole matter turns as a substantial part on what is decided at trial, it is appropriate that it should be left until then rather than dealt with at this stage.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Can you tell me where the costs schedules are?
MR. HICKS: I can hand them up. I have got one on each side. (Same handed)
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Thank you. Is there anything you want to add?
Mr. Hicks?
MR. HICKS: In terms of the costs schedules, our costs are higher ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: No, I am not talking about assessment at the moment,
I am simply looking to see what sort of costs burden has been incurred in relation to these applications. These schedules are no doubt just in relation to these applications ----
MR. HICKS: That is right, yes, as I understand it.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: ---- rather than the actions of others.
MR. HICKS: Yes. Our schedule certainly is specifically limited to this application. Our simple submission is that these applications are decided on an issue which will not actually be an issue at trial, namely, balance of convenience and therefore a presumably discrete issue.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Thank you. Mr. Hacon, I will not stop you adding if you want to, although you have now had three bites.
MR. HACON: It has been pointed out to you, of course, that a lot of those costs go to the application before Mann J.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: What did Mann J. do? Presumably he reserved those costs to today?
MR. HACON: He reserved them to today, that is absolutely right. I do remind your Lordship, there will be a lot of duplication for the work done at trial.
A lot of this will just be transferred over, so effectively they will become trial costs.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Very well.
I will hear submissions now on assessment and interim payment because
I think I indicated to Mr. Hacon that I was dealing with incidence at the stage which I have so far reached.
It seems, Mr. Hicks, somewhat unrealistic to have a summary assessment of half your costs of this application.
MR. HICKS: I respectfully agree. It may therefore be sensible to make an interim payment to reflect that I am bound to recover something. My costs are £56,000, so if one were to say half of that, £28,000 and then a core minimum might be half of that, so I would suggest an interim payment of £14,000.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: What do you say about that, Mr. Hacon?
MR. HACON: I think that is about right, yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I propose to accede to that invitation. This is not a case in which it would be sensible summarily to assess costs where there has been a mixture of work on the merits and on the balance of convenience and I propose to accede to Mr. Hicks' submission, which Mr. Hacon did not oppose, to split the claimants' costs element of £56,000-odd in half and then to award an interim payment against the half of £14,000. 28 days, Mr. Hacon?
MR. HACON: Yes, my Lord.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I so order. Directions for trial we need to deal with.
MR. HICKS: I have done some thinking about that. You have given an extension of time for service of the defence.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Shall we treat this in what I would call a case management conference way, that is not standing on ceremony with
Mr. Hacon responding, as it were, stage by stage? The first thing you want is an order for a speedy trial, is it not?
MR. HICKS: That is right. In terms of time estimate, of course it is difficult, but we would have thought this was about four to five days.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Let us look at that first. The modern practice is to look at the trial and then fill in everything in between. Mr. Hacon, four to five days?
MR. HACON: About five days, yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Five day trial. Time estimate five days window, it must be over, must it not, and judgment delivered by the end of January?
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. HACON: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Is really January not too late for a trial?
MR. HACON: I suspect it is.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I would have thought so.
MR. HACON: December is the realistic deadline.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: So speedy trial, estimate five days, window to close by end of December, well, close by the end of that term such as the trial concludes that term. So a window by one week before the end of the term because the window only relates to the start of the trial, as I understand it.
Now, directions for that purpose. There is an extension for a defence. Is that a definite extension until when?
MR. HICKS: We have given an extension to take it to the 26th June.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Any difficulty with that, Mr. Hacon?
MR. HACON: No.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I think not with your submissions yesterday.
MR. HACON: It is virtually there, I think.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: 26th June. I would quite like to shorten that period if it is nearly there.
MR. HACON: I would imagine it could be dealt with within seven days probably.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Yes. We are now on the 14th. Shall we say the 21st?
MR. HACON: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Reply, seven days?
MR. HICKS: Seven, yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: So reply 28th June. Disclosure, preparations must be well on the way, must they not?
MR. HACON: Yes, but we have obviously got a lot of documents.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Yes.
MR. HACON: One issue that is ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: What about liberty to disclosure?
MR. HICKS: The big burden of disclosure will be if there is going to be an issue of overseas reputation. It may be we can deal with that by admission. What we certainly do not want to do is to spend a lot of money trying to prove reputation overseas. It may be possible to do by consent.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I am not sure we can do better at the moment because there is not even a defence in yet, than to say general disclosure, standard disclosure, but with liberty to apply to limit it and an encouragement to the parties to limit it by agreement. Indeed, a direction to the parties to explore limitations of disclosure by agreement but with liberty to apply if nothing is agreed. It does seem to me that you have gone far enough in the evidence to know where the real factual questions are, even if the pleadings notionally disclose that the issues appear to be wider.
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: And by I suppose mid-July?
MR. HACON: Yes.
MR. HICKS: Can I just say ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: You are abroad, are you not, Mr. Hicks?
MR. HICKS: Yes, that is what is worrying me slightly.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Yes, I understand that.
MR. HICKS: I think we were hoping for something more like August. It should not affect the trial date, but we do have to get stuff out of Denmark and all we have in the UK is ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Mid-August.
MR. HICKS: Mid-August, yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: What do you say, Mr. Hacon?
MR. HACON: That is fine.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Mid-August. It gives you longer to limit it too.
MR. HACON: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Shall we say disclosure and inspection mid-August?
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. HACON: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: If mid is not good enough, it will have to be well,
I think mid-August is actually a Wednesday, yes, 15th August.
Now, witness statement. They are not going to be desperately sensitive to each other's disclosure, it seems to me.
MR. HICKS: No.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Not factual witness statements.
MR. HICKS: No.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: What about mid-September?
MR. HICKS: We are going to suggest a slightly later date than that, because what
I think both sides will want to do is to see how the summer has gone because of course if there is going to be any evidence in relation to that ----
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I would be inclined to say that that would be more appropriate for supplementary evidence. Yes?
MR. HACON: I am sorry, I missed the date that Mr. Hicks put forward.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I was looking at mid-September for witness statements. Mr. Hicks said, "Well, we want to see how the summer goes before we put in our evidence." My inclination was you can always put supplementary evidence in if there is something about the summer market that is relevant.
MR. HACON: I am a little concerned about people being around August and September. It is always problematic.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Shall we say the 24th September?
MR. HACON: Yes. That is a Monday.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Monday, 24th September. I like them to be in and looked at before term gets started, it seems to me.
MR. HACON: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Is anybody going to want to rely on expert evidence?
I suppose you are.
MR. HACON: It is possible.
MR. HICKS: Possible. Permission to rely on an expert in the field of public opinion and reputation.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Of what? Is there nothing in this world which is not susceptible to being "expert" these days"! I thought you might want a forensic report from an accountant to present in an easy and economical form statistical material which would otherwise take a long time to present. It is not really expert evidence, but it is often made the subject of a special order.
MR. HICKS: The kind of expert we had in mind is if either side wanted to do a survey and frequently that is provided by means of an expert.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I am not I think minded to encourage it, so what
I propose to do at the moment is to give liberty to apply for the use of expert evidence provided that the application is made by not later than the end of the first week in October. Any later than that, we will not get it in in time for the trial. I think the court would expect to see annexed to any such application at least the gist of the sort of material that was sought to be introduced rather than just something rather vague like "and we think we would still quite like to". So liberty to apply for expert evidence provided application listed for hearing by, let us say, the 8th October, any such application to adduce but not necessarily to disclose to the other side, the evidence sought to be relied on. The point I am making is that it forces you to go and get it, but you may still say there ought to be an exchange.
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. HACON: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: And, if necessary, the judge can look at it on a brown paper envelope basis. But this may well be an appropriate case, if you are not sure you need it now, for a sequential exchange.
Anything else? There are Chancery Guide directions for bundles and skeletons.
MR. HICKS: Yes.
MR. HACON: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: And I think there ought to be an express provision for notification to the court if it appears that the time estimate is no longer valid.
I know there is a duty, but it seems to be worth spelling out.
MR. HICKS: And a direction that we obtain a date.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: You will attend now to obtain a date.
MR. HICKS: We can.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: On the basis I have directed that there be a speedy trial and I say that the window ought at least to close I do not mind when the Clerk of the Lists opens it by a week before the end of the Christmas term. He may want to put it in somewhat earlier than that, to avoid the Christmas rush. If he wishes to, he can. Shall we say window to open not earlier than the 12th November? That gives him reasonable flexibility to fit you in.
This is not a particularly heavy case, but you have never been to a Master yet,
I take it. This is the CMC, do you want to reserve or ask to reserve me for case management? I am not actually sure the case needs any further case management.
MR. HACON: No, it seems unlikely, but it would certainly be helpful and faster if that happened.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: I think what I will say is that you are at liberty to ask for a direction that I case manage this one through to through to trial. I have already got two and sometimes, if any particular judge has too many, it tends to be a bit of a millstone round your neck. But I suspect that you do not want to wait for a Master's appointment for anything in this case because of the timetable.
MR. HICKS: I think it is unlikely.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: But you have liberty to apply to the judge so as to indicate here and now that you do not have to wait in a queue for a Master on a case management matter.
MR. HICKS: Yes. I am grateful for that suggestion, my Lord. I think that covers everything.
MR. JUSTICE BRIGGS: Yes. Thank you for your help.